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Transcript of It's Okay If You're Not Okay podcast Episode 06 11/08/2019

Description: Outtake of Renee yelling "heyo" in the microphone, not realizing that Keith already has his headphones on. All three hosts laugh and decide that the episode needs to be called "heyo." Then Keith tries to start the episode, but his voice cracks and they all start laughing again.

Keith: Thanks for joining us for another episode. I'm Keith.

Kate: I'm Kate.

Renee: I'm Renee, and it's okay if you're not okay.

Keith: We're talking about Thanksgiving today, but before we jump into that, how you can help us reach more people with the podcast and one is subscribed to the podcast, two is review the podcast and three is share the podcast. Did I say share twice?

Renee: If you did, that's okay. Share it.

Keith: That really helps us reach more people in our community and across the country with these messages about mental wellness. So do it. [Laughter] That's like way more assertive than I normally am. [Laughter, talking over each other]. Okay. And on that note Thanksgiving. So before we jump in, I want to acknowledge and affirm both that Thanksgiving can be a wonderful thing and a hard thing for people depending on your past and your history and also that not all of our listeners, celebrate Thanksgiving. And so we acknowledg that and affirm that those are decisions that are okay to make.

Kate: And that we respect them.

Keith: And so we're going to talk a little bit about the ways in which we shape and model our lives to help make that Thanksgiving holiday more positive, acknowledging some of the stressors there and we're talking about how gratitude around Thanksgiving can be helpful to us. And those are some skills and some ideas that you can apply whether you celebrate Thanksgiving or not. So stick with us even if you don't celebrate Thanksgiving and hope you can learn some, some pieces there. So I know we've talked and for all of us, Thanksgiving is pretty much a positive thing, although we acknowledge that there's been some years that have been more stressful than others and there's dynamics that have been hard. What are some of the things that really set Thanksgiving apart for you? Uh, in the midst of, uh, like compared to the rest of the year?

Renee: The food.

Keith: What about the food?

Renee: I think it's because my family specifically, we've created tradition around a certain, dishes that really... Alright, Green bean casserole. Okay. It's one of my top three guys I can't do Thanksgiving without it . I can make a green bean casserole tomorrow. It doesn't matter. But around this day and age, just because of the, um, because of the meaning we put behind it, right? The shared experience we put behind it, the food becomes just such an integral part of the way that we celebrate and the way that we have fellowship together as a family. Uh, the food is, becomes a focal point for that. And it's, it's really fun. It's really fun learning from generations cooking the same things. Um, I found, on the whole food trip here, this really isn't a food podcast, I promise.

Keith: Maybe it should be.

Renee: I would probably be much more well versed or be much more opinionated. I love asking, asking people, um, if you could only have three things on your Thanksgiving dinner table, what would they be? And the only reason I ask that is to bring to light some of the differences in traditions and food tastes that different families have. And so it's really fun to think about. Um, yeah, just, just kind of put a different spin on it because we all don't have the same thing on the table and that's, that's okay.

Keith: So that's a really interesting, uh, for me this year because, uh, my wife and I are hosting Thanksgiving for my family this year, which is not at all normal peace. And my family doesn't know this yet. So we're changing the traditional Thanksgiving menu.

Kate: Tell us more.

Keith: so we're going to have some of those...so greenbean casserole will still be there. But we're not doing Turkey and Turkey stuffing. We're doing pork Tenderloin, pork stuffing. We're doing something different. Right. But it points to, like, I haven't told my family yet because I've been trying to decide when to tell them. They probably gonna to find out by listening to this episode of the podcast.

Renee: And have the same face that I do have shock and awe.

Keith: Uh, and so they might find out by listening to the podcast and that will be okay. But like it just, it kind of brings to light you, you mentioned Renee traditions, but just how like all of a sudden like these traditions and things you've done for a long time and you kind of like are building up to this day that's significant and you're making decisions about what you should and shouldn't do. And right now I have literally been thinking for days about when I should tell my family that we're not having turkey on Thanksgiving.

Kate: When at the end of the day the Turkey is food, and tradition is family togetherness. But yeah, all of those almost expectations that go into what holidays are going to be difficult.

Keith: So maybe that's a place we can hang out for a little bit on expectations and how that can cause stress and then how we can manage those in a way that will help us have healthy relationships with our family members.

Renee: Yeah, I think around whether it's a holiday, whether it's a family gathering, whether it's getting up out of bed into your car and out to work or the store or a community event, I think just having, um, a really good understanding of our own expectations is a, is a great place to start because we can really truly set ourself up for failure. And it feels devastating. It, I can do it to myself. I am truly speaking from experience that when I go in with, with, with so much assurance and, and I, I know this is going to happen and then it doesn't, I've done that to myself. Right. And so giving myself space, um, going back to Kate, what you have said is I've, I've had to do this. Um, uh, my brother lives out of town. My parents live down just a little bit South of me. Whose house do we go to? Where do we go? Who will be at the table? And really at the end of the day you said it's not about the food that's there, it's about coming together, having fun, playing games. We like to play games, we like to watch football and do you know what I've had to do is all come back home and I'll make myself the top three things that I want on my Thanksgiving table. Whether I got them, whether I didn't get them, but I, what I don't want to do is let's say don't get green bean casserole. First of all, huge hypothetical. We always have greenbean casserole. Everyone in the family knows better, but if it wasn't on the table, my Thanksgiving isn't over because of that.

Keith: Have you always been in that place?

Renee: I mean like, no. Heck no.

Keith: That's like not an easy place to be. Right. We do have those expectations. I was joking about our menu because probably there's an expectation that we're going to have Turkey on Thanksgiving with my whole family.

Renee: Right. And, and, and that, okay. And so I hope that if there are families listening and you find yourself at somebody's house where the menu is not their tradition, traditional menu or not the traditional activities, Hey, do it the next weekend, right. Fill that void. Meet your own expectation, but be in that moment, be in that moment with your friends, with your family, with yourself. Right. So manage those expectations. Um, and that's okay.

Kate: And I want to add in to when you said be in the moment, do so in a way that's present. So being in the moment doesn't mean that you're hanging around your family and you're on your phone the entire time or completely disengaged, you know, being, as long as it's healthy course. Yeah. You know, set those boundaries and be with them.

Keith: Yes, and, although I was kind saying it in a joking way about I'm nervous about telling my family, it's not that I am like avoiding this conflict either. Like so one of the pieces here, but one of the pieces about managing your own expectations is you, you manage those in the context of it, your relationships with people. Because a lot of the expectations we put on special family gatherings are expectations we have for how other people might behave or my other people do. And so going back to one of our earlier episodes about sphere of control, I only can control my own actions and thoughts and feelings, not somebody else's. And so realizing that, but then also realizing that I am responsible to, to own what those expectations are and to talk through them. And if I know that I'm doing, if I am making a choice that is not going to meet the expectations of others and I already know it having a conversation up front, it could be really healthy for me and my family.

Renee: Sure. Or just saying it on a podcast. I joke. So true. So if you think you might, um, I don't even, I don't even know if disappoint or not meet the expectation of somebody else or something else. Talk about it. "Hey, I was wondering..." all right, and just start a conversation,

Keith: When I, when I heard you say that, I felt like, yes, I affirm that, but also like all of a sudden the sense of like panic, like, Oh no, I need to be really worried about meeting someone's expectation. Like it's okay, you don't have to meet everybody's expectation. You can't have that. You can't have that expectation of yourself to meet everybody else else else's expectations. And then kind of one of my relationship conversation mantras that I repeat to probably on 50% of our episodes is that no relationship, excuse me, no conversation happens in a vacuum. Right? And so the conversations that I'm going to have with my family, it's really not going to be a big deal about the food. But those conversations, it's not a big deal because I have other conversations with them. And so if my relationship with them was unhealthy the rest of the year, that conversation about pork tenderloin instead of turkey would be much more tense. But because I have ongoing relationship with my family and have some of that back and forth conversation, it's not going to be a big deal. Someone might say bummer...

Renee: Can I speak to that just for a second, Keith. I think that's a really, again, just a relatable example and I want to just maybe put my clinical word it, is projection, right? So if there is unresolved conflict, if there is, uh, no really healthy communication styles or patterns within a family, we truly might just project that conflict. I'm not thinking in a funny way, but like onto the pork tenderloin. Where the argument or the conflict or the expectations become about the pork tenderloin. It ain't about the pork tenderloin, right? It's about, we don't, we don't have that healthy relationship outside of this space and so we don't know how to talk about the stuff that we really need to talk about. Yeah. I hope that made sense.

Keith: So I really appreciate that idea about projection because right now we're talking about thanksgiving, but you can use that same piece in really any relationships. So you're thinking about in a marriage relationship, boyfriend, girlfriend, whatever. I'm I'm sure that that is the same there where you have an argument about who for, who didn't put the dishes in the dishwasher when really it might have nothing to do with dishes and dishwasher at all.

Renee: Right. I, I'm sure I've, I've said it before, if I haven't, I hope I become more mindful and aware of saying it in every single podcast episode, but really, truly trying to be a mentor and a steward of this phrase. Say what you mean, mean what you say and don't be mean. I absolutely, I've got to know the message that I want to send and if I have, have my feelings hurt or need to articulate an expectation, I deserve to do that. And I have the right to do that in a healthy way. Again, I can't control how anybody else thinks, feels or behaves, but if that's my need, I need to get met, great. But if I start resenting someone over just thinking on our Thanksgiving table here, um, if I start resenting folks about what's on the table, I think I need to step back and remind myself, um, again, be present. Why am I here? What am I doing? What is this really about? And just maybe, maybe that's not the time to bring something up. Maybe we need to do a little more, um, work thinking about it first.

Keith: I think another dynamic around any kind of holiday or family get any or Thanksgiving in particular is trying to figure out where do you spend your time? Or who you, who you spend your time with. Do you travel? Do you stay home? How have you both managed that with your families to come to some type of healthy, oh, I want to say almost agreement because I feel like sometimes it has to be like a negotiation. Oh, it's, it can feel that way sometimes though, right?

Renee: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: Well it's just me. So I mean there's not a whole lot of negotiations.

Keith: Well you still, you still have to decide where you're going to spend and I would imagine that some of your family, parents, cousins, grandparents, something has some expectations that you're going to be somewhere.

Kate: Yes, there are still two sides of the family and, but I will in full transparency, I will own that. I am completely rigid when it comes to my Thanksgiving holiday traditions because that is my one holiday that I get to spend it with my grandma who is out of state. And so that's like, that's, that's like a security thing. Same thing for Christmas Eve for me. I mean that's my, don't mess with holiday, but I just know that that's my special time to go and spend it with my dad's side of the family and enjoy it and be up there for a couple of days. I'm super protective of it. Like I just know that that will be a hard discussion to have one day.

Renee: It isn't something that you keep a secret from your family or is it something though?

Kate: Oh yeah, no, I've been pretty open. I mean I'm, that for me is a really important time to get to just be up there and see, like I said, we, we have our traditions for just about everything. So we, I guess we're all pretty rigid in some degree. Sorry, mom and dad will never stray away from them. But we go up and, you know, it's my time to spend with my grandma. Ever since I was little, I would help her cook, you know, she'll always say used to sit on this stool and help me every year she says it. And so we always make them meal together and then the guys are watching football and uh, mom's looking at black Friday ads and helping in the kitchen. And then we have more family come over that I only get to see once a year. And from there then we all go, even though I despise this part, but I do it because holiday is also about compromise. Even though I still pushed back a little bit. Uh, we get and go play putt, putt, do 18 rounds with the seven people and it takes forever. But we get a lot of good laughs, you know, my grandma and I are on a team together and you know, rock and roll in last place, but I just can't give that. Like for me, I know, again, like I said a little bit ago, holidays are about compromise. And so at some point in life, whether it's with my immediate family or with friends, there's going to have to be compromise. It happens around holidays. But right now I'm just uber protective of it.

Renee: I think that's a fair place to be. You know that your family knows that it happens year over year and right now your family is at a place where you can do that. Right? Everybody is alive and there and present. And in the years to come again, you might have other natural occurrences. I go, Hey, listen, we have to rethink this. And so, um, I would say interestingly enough, this, this day of all days, I used to hold so much rigidity around, I don't know what it was about this day. Um, I, I love to cook. I love learning what my family loves. I like learning new recipes and putting my own twist on things. That was really fun. And so I think while I was maybe coming to my own understanding of what Thanksgiving meant to me, I was a little more rigid around that space. Um, but I can tell you over the last, I would say five years or so, um, man, you could tell me we're going to travel the last minute. I, I just, it's, I think it's just about where I'm at and I know that if there's something I miss on that exact day, I'm in control of receiving that tradition. I'm, I'm in charge of that so I can go roasted Turkey the next weekend if I want the leftovers because I went to my family and they had a pork loin. Again, be in that moment, enjoy this wonderful meal that I have the opportunity to have with my family and it's okay if I want to go home and cook a Turkey, like, it's okay. I'm sorry. I will, I'll say I was really rigid and then as family has grown and family has moved, I think I was grown and moved with them. And find myself in a really awesome, no pun intended, grateful space that I have the opportunity in my life to travel, stay put, do something unique, do something traditional. Um, and just kind of enjoying the day and, and the weekend. I think that's awesome.

Keith: Thanksgiving's been really fluid in, in my family, uh, since my wife and I have been married and moved out to Kansas city, um, you know, growing up we always went to my grandma's house and all my aunts and uncles and cousins were there. And I remember that I have memories from being really young, but I don't know that we've had two Thanksgiving back to back in the now-close-to-12 years that we've been married now that have been the same. And so sometimes we've traveled to my family, we traveled to my wife's family, we've stayed in town and had it just with us. We've had friends over, I've had students over when I was working at a college. I, you know, I've done kind of all those different varieties and so I don't have some of those same Thanksgiving traditions that would be that kind of, that rigidity, about it for me except for that on Thanksgiving there's a big meal and we have lots of people around the table eating that meal together like that. That's the, that's the only thing that's the same.

Kate: Yeah. I love it. And there's no one right way to do it. Like that's the other thing I take away from whatever is being celebrated whether it is a holiday or not. Yeah. There's no one right way to celebrate with family, whatever family means to you because I also recognize family could be what you choose whether that's friends and...

Renee: Absolutely, and so that could be hard, right? That could be a really hard decision. Um, what I hope that, uh, the, uh, what I want to share with listeners about this subject specifically is you can absolutely choose who you spend your time and energy on and with. That that is up to you.

Keith: My wife and I made that decision several years ago: Kind of our first priority, when we're making decisions about whether to travel or to stay and what that looks like is the, the health of my immediate family, so my wife and my kids. And, and that's been sometimes challenging. We've had to have some conversations with extended family to say, "this is why we're not traveling this year" or "this is why we're only going to be there for this amount of time." Because I think with those traditions, I mentioned that I had a lot of traditions growing up. Part of me when I first got married wanted to keep, maintain those same traditions, but all of a sudden I live six, seven, eight, nine, 10 hours away by car from family and family members and more in different States. And so maintaining some of those old traditions I loved growing up was nearly impossible. And then that's when expectation, you know, you have unreasonable expectations, you can have more stress, more turmoil. And so we've just made that decision, which isn't always to stay home. It's just that we're considering what that decision means on our nuclear family first.

Kate: I was going to say it and I would as we talk about setting some, establishing some boundaries, also doing so with your self as an individual. Like I think through how awesome any holidays specifically thinking about Thanksgiving in general can be but also how stressful it is. And the emotions that can come with holidays and blocking out time for you to just step away. Whether that's you by yourself or you with someone else. Like every time after we eat our Thanksgiving meal, my dad, he's probably just wanting you know to step away but he gets to drag me along with him and we go on a long walk and that's our time together to unwind and talk about whatever's going on and just have father-daughter time. He might not see it that way. That's how I see it as something that I always look forward to, but it's that time blocked off that I know this is self care so that when I come back and I have to be forced into putt, putt golf later that I am not going to be so agitated but I have to go, you know, take 10 swings per hole. So you know, making sure that we find that time to take care of ourselves, to recognize the emotions we might be feeling. Don't push them under the rug, you know, recognize them, sit with them, you know, say what they are and then move on and enjoy your day.

Keith: I'm really thinking about those examples about self care in the context of families that you might be with like your in-laws family or like an extended family that's not your own, particularly if those family dynamics are way different than the family you grew up with and how important that those same skills are in those moments of recognizing your emotions. Setting some time for self care in the midst of that, talking about how you feel and, and, and being aware of, "I'm feeling this way because..." And so whether you can do that in a moment of a situation or after the fact to go back and think through it, those are really helpful skills for those of our listeners who are going, going to be in those situations that it's not where they tend to feel most comfortable.

Kate: If you're having tough conversations and you're not ready to own your feelings in front of everyone else either, you could always just say, "Hey, you know, I just need to go to the bathroom real quick" so I'll be right back, take five. You know, they might wonder what's going on, but take five and give ourselves some time away and then come back to the table or to the environment, wherever you are once you're ready and can talk productively, effectively, nicely, all of those things.

Renee: I think this has just been a really a really nice turn on the conversation because really it is a reminder to folks that our struggles don't just magically vanish because a day is called Thanksgiving and everyone is, most are off work and it's really another Thursday. And so the same struggles had the same, um, accomplishments and successes, the same anything can happen and you get to again, be ready for that. You get to prepare in the way that's best for you in knowing yourself the best. Kate, I know you said something earlier that...Oh "it was just me" and I said, man, I bet you there's listeners or, or listeners that either are alone on this day or know someone that's alone. So man, what I'd love to extend an invitation. If you've got room at your table and you know someone's going to be alone, ask the question, invite to your table. Or if you are out there and you are alone, first of all, don't feel pressure to accept an invitation. You're okay being alone. Absolutely fine. Also know too, I have to mention crisis lines, guys. It's 913-268-0156. If you are in a crisis or just maybe unsure what to do with your mental wellness on that day or any day, please give us a phone call, talk it out, um, and get some peace of mind about that. We welcome that.

Kate: Or if you're worried about someone that you're with, so we're noticing a friend or family member that you're with might seem a little off how they usually are, you can call and you can process through that as well.

Keith: I want to shift gears a little bit to start talking a little bit about gratitude. Gratitude can help us in our mental wellness, but before we do, it is time for our official disclaimer. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast do not necessarily represent those of Johnson County Mental Health Center or Johnson County Government. So gratitude. Kate's getting pretty excited over there to talk about how can it contribute to overall mental health.

Renee: All right, I'm ready. So I have a lot of thoughts on this and so I'll make sure that I don't come off strong sharing some of those. Um, I'm a big believer, I'll start with that of gratitude and the benefits that it has for overall mental health, especially for those are trying to work through their mental illness. So big believer, I will say on the flip side of that, there is nothing more frustrating than for someone who's going through mental illness and in that dark time to say, "Well, there's so much that you should be grateful for." You know, think about all that you have because then it shuts down that conversation. So that being said, one of the things that I, I want to mention to listeners, knowing that gratitude plays such a big role in your recovery journey and your mental wellness, whether you have a mental illness or not, because we all know that all of us have mental health. Just like we all have physical health, right? Journal the things that you're grateful for, thankful for on an ongoing basis. Don't leave it to one day out of the year and that way on Thanksgiving, if you have 10 things you can write down, amazing. If you find yourself on Thanksgiving and just aren't in a place where you can come up with something that you're grateful for in that time because you're just in that dark moment, you can then go back to that journal and go, okay, these are the things that I can't see right now that I am thankful for in that can help pull you through and be grateful for what you can in the, in the mindset that you're in.

Renee: I think it's just really neat to talk about the concept of being thankful or grateful or having thanks. Giving thanks. Having gratitude is really good for our mental wellness and I don't take a lot of time to think about that. I really don't. I hope this sparks conversation in people. I hope this sparks thought, it has for me just sitting here going, what am I going to say about being thankful? Wait a minute. It's such a rich part of my life and I hope it looks like it comes naturally to me. But I want to tell y'all, my two friends sitting here in this room and our listeners: Guys, it's hard. It's hard, right? To be really purposefully cognizant of the things I am grateful for to those or to people or things that I have gratitude for. Um, I have to, I have to be humble. There are times where I maybe step out a little bit of my pride and be humbled to be grateful for. But man, if I don't do that, I do think I would, I could see how my mental wellness would be impacted. Um, and so again, to go where Kate is. I love that she said journal. In my mind, I cringed. That's my worst coping skill in the whole world. To write something? You've gotta be kidding me. What I know for me is I have to make the choice. It has to be purposeful. I have to get into that grateful space very purposefully. And when I do, ah, it's a world of difference.

Kate: Well and can I add too to what you said is that it doesn't have to be some grandiose. I'm thankful for these huge things that are happening. It could be if you are struggling to come up with some of the things around you that you're thankful for. I got up this morning, I didn't poke my eye with my mascara stick. Yes, I am so thankful. Or you know, I got to work and I was on time. I'm thankful. Or there's small things that we can recognize throughout the day that might seem small in the grand scheme, but are all things that had they gone wrong, they would have been much more apparent to us than had they gone right. And so it's important to reframe that and go, okay, there were little things along the way that are exciting and...

Renee: I think it's the little things that probably keep me most grounded. Um, if I could, I would wear flip flops year round. I can, uh, I know I've talked about this, I know I've mentioned flip flops before. My mother would have unkind words...not unkind...strong, strongly worded phrases to remind me that my feet are going to get cold, that I'm going to catch a death of cold and I'm going to get ill in some way because I have flip flops on. And like all the times I've broken my toes. Her first question is, do you have flip flops on? Yes, mom. But I'll tell you when the first, uh, when the first freeze happened and then it was um, coupled with precipitation, I was really thankful for my sneakers because I really didn't want to walk in my parking lot in my flip flops. I was afraid I was going to fall and hurt something. So in that moment I was like, man, Renee, you've got sneakers. Like you got like three pairs to choose from. This is pretty cool. And I laughed at myself and I'm of course, never in a million years did I think I'd be talking and telling this story on a podcast, but of course not my mom, my mom would be so proud. I'm wearing sneakers on the first time that there's ice on the ground. But it's those little moments. If, if I didn't take time to stop and laugh and be thankful, I would, I would, I'd walk around with a really negative approach to things.

Keith: Yeah. I was just thinking about, you know, I mentioned that we don't have a lot of traditions besides gathering for a meal on Thanksgiving, but one tradition we do have, and I don't know for sure when it even started, but somewhere my kids picked it up and they've kept it going is at the Thanksgiving dinner we go around the table and every person says one thing that they're thankful for for that year.

Kate: I love it. Especially that your kids...

Keith: Yeah, like last year I remember that so vividly that it was my nine year old, who was of course then eight, uh, who like made sure that happened around the table. And what's wonderful about that is you're on the table and some people are saying some really deep, meaningful make you want to cry type things. And then other people say their sneakers. [Laughter] And that's, and that's fine. I remember around the table what some people said they were thankful for. And I remember both like the deep meaningful stuff and the stuff that was kind of surface level stuff from my perspective, uh, and, and that's good.

Kate: I love that cause you never know where someone's at in that moment. Because the things to us that might be surface level or a small thing. And I think it's just important for all of us to remember cause I know I've had those same thoughts as you where it's like, okay that's an interesting thing that...

Keith: And I also have kids who say really funny things.

Kate: Yeah. Right. But you never know. It's like for some people that day that's the best that they can do and things that I am so thankful for because I just think about like, especially on social media, everyone posts what are you thankful for on around Thanksgiving and you're bound to have that question come up to you at some point. Yeah. And so I just encourage everyone listening to make sure that we take our own blinders off, for lack of a better word and appreciate any answer that we get back from people.

Renee: And be willing to give any answer that is meaningful to us in that moment.

Keith: You don't have to meet someone else's expectations about what you're going to say.

Renee: Yeah, exactly. And I will tell you that before this conversation with you guys, I didn't really truly understand the depth of gratitude and I really think that I'm leaving here a little more just kind of enlightened about how it, right, small, deep philosophical, whatever words you want to use is that I, I do have things that I may be more often thankful for. Some things I'm less often thankful for some things that just come so naturally. Some things I don't even think about again, sneakers, but uh, right. My health, my home, my and all that stuff. I just, I guess I didn't recognize the depth and I really appreciate you guys just kind of bringing that to my attention.

Keith: I know another thing that we talk about around here is, I think I heard Tim say this before, so rarely when you see a person who's in recovery and who's going in the right direction, them come and say, "I did this all by myself." And just, yeah, and just acknowledging, even if you're not a person who identifies as being in recovery, but you just as a person, whoever you are, just as a human, just recognizing the impact that people have had somewhere along the way. And I know that not everybody has a good long-term story about that, right? Some of us have some people who have been kind of awful and I recognize that. Yeah. But when we can think of even just the one person, that teacher, that principal, that professor, that mentor or that neighbor that whomever who is, who did something, even if it was little, that just helped change the way we think about something or help move us in a different direction, or just showed us that one day we needed to be shown that someone cares about us. Those are things we can be thankful about forever.

Renee: Oh, I agree, because I'm sitting in here thinking how, how thankful I actually am for your daughter as we've had this conversation because I even feel rejuvenated that at then eight she is willing to start that conversation about...I had just had the goosebumps right now about all of the things that are great in life even when things seem hard and that when we might not want to sit in that conversation but we're great for for there is someone who's willing to do that and so she's just one cool gal. I'm just sitting here, I'm like, I'm so thankful for her because sometimes we need that reminder.

Renee: I will tell you, Keith, I am going to share my own personal challenge from this conversation, from what I'm taking forward and that is this Thanksgiving I want to do my best to be that one person for someone in some way, shape or form. I think I look for those one people, right? That one person in my life. I think I look for those one off moments. I'm not sure I look to be those one off moments. And so this year I hope to be that one person.

Keith: Yeah. Well great. Yeah. Let's wrap up here. Uh, this was, I'm excited about Thanksgiving and all these new new things and with much more gratitude and with conversations about pork Tenderloin. What, uh, what's one thing we could wrap up and leave listeners with most important thing you, you got out of this conversation?

Renee: I think I'm just going to go back to my recent recognition of the depth of gratitude. It is okay if it's something that is extremely readily available and tangible or something that I have to spend a lot of time [inaudible, Kate saying Renee took hers]

Kate: I would say the importance of not only taking care of your, your family, but also taking care of you. Don't be afraid to feel the emotions you're feeling, but also don't be afraid to step away if you need a moment and give yourself that time to level back out and then join back in. And I think my biggest takeaway in addition to Renee's,

Keith: Our conversation about gratitude definitely resonated the most with me. I think though, the wrap up statement that I'd want to make is just coming back to where we started about expectations and recognizing what expectations exist and what you have control over and the relationships you have around around those, and then to manage your own expectations. Uh, I, I just think that's a really valuable process to go through leading up to Thanksgiving to help you be able to really appreciate that time for, for what it is. Absolutely.

All: I'm Keith. I'm Kate. I'm Renee, and it's okay if you're not okay. Happy Thanksgiving.